AA:  Yes. Is there a thread? 

ADS:  No, I mean, there are many more women in this than in "Fires in the Mirror," where there are very few women. One curious thing that I'm interested in that doesn't get fully articulated even in two full hours of "Twilight" is aunts. Angela King is Rodney King's aunt, and she's a spokesperson for the family, then there's a story that happened and many people think led up to the uprising, which is the killing of Laticia Harlens, a young black girl who was shot by a Korean store owner. Her aunt, Denise Harlens, represents her in that and has become really politicized. And then there's a woman called Theresa Allison, who I do in the full show, whose nephew was shot forty-three times by the cops—Henry Pico was his name, and he's also become a kind of a legend in the community, because the community feels that he was unjustly shot by the cops. 

ADS:  Well they shot at him forty-three times, kind of like Bonnie and Clyde. And I was interested that there were these aunts who were defending kids, and who had to become political really quickly—just had normal lives, and had to suddenly be political and are giving up their whole . . . are the spokespeople for these kids. 

AA:  I guess I was thinking about having women speaking in general about issues like these, because that's a space that's usually reserved for men. 

ADS:  It's changing so fast. In fact, the person who's really underrepresented in the show—I have to figure out why—is white men. And I don't know why, I don't know why; I mean, when I rewrite it—which I'm going to do before it comes to New York—I have to really look at that. Part of me goes, "Well, isn't it interesting, it was sort of an interesting year." This editor from Newsweek—I had called her to talk to her about Anita Hill, because I'd been asked to give a speech about what had happened in popular culture during the year after the Anita Hill hearings—she said it was a very stormy year that kind of began with Anita Hill and ended with the Republican convention, where white males in power were really displayed as unattractive. Starting with Anita Hill and going all the way through, through the L.A. uprising and so forth. And when I started to think about the year that whole way, which I thought was a very interesting idea, Anita Hill being the beginning of this watershed which was going to lead institutions—and it did, inevitably—to suddenly put women and people of color in powerful positions, whereas they had not before; they were beginning to see the need to hear from more than white men, since white men behave so poorly, you know. 

AA:  Which culminated in the election, and the power— 

ADS:  And the Republican right and the power transference. And so there was this sudden outburst of women speaking out about Anita Hill, white women speaking out once again. And then I wondered why that speech was silent as far as what I could hear during the uprising. I don't remember—and please tell me, because I would like to go find her, and interview her—I don't remember very many white women in power who are spokespeople saying anything about the uprising. Not that they should, but again that's the danger of this separate camps kind of thing. Special issues, special interests and special issues. 

AA:  And I think that is the main criticism of feminism. 

ADS:  And really, the theme this year, just like it used to be "All power to the people," is "No justice, no peace." And here is this man going to be a justice? Then where is the same concern about justice appearing when this verdict came about? 

AA:  Well, it's the weakness of feminism because it's not— 

ADS:  We keep expecting it to be something that it's not.  

AA:  Right. Well, it was supposed to be an articulated—but it was, I mean it never has been— 

ADS:  It never was, it never was. I think it used the civil rights movement to learn how to organize, and we were foolish to think it was anything more than that. And I'm a feminist, I consider myself a feminist, but I think I had too many expectations. 

AA:  And do you think that's the reason why white women are underrepresented, from your perspective? 

ADS:  I don't know, it's interesting, isn't it? Basically, I would say—well, I don't know what I heard. But I think it's very interesting. I don't know, I have to wait and see when I rewrite it, what will happen. 

KLF:  In the same way that the Asian woman made certain articulations to you about her concerns, did you experience that with any white women? 

ADS:  Not as emotional as that. I heard, the one white woman who is represented, and she wasn't in the show you saw—her son was in the helicopter that shot the Denney beating—and so in a real full show she shows the Denney beating when she talks about it, and she's really, really disgusted by it, and very disillusioned, and basically says, "As far I'm concerned they can all go out and work for a living now." And many people applauded after her speech where she says, you know, white people are getting really, really angry. She speaks of a white rage which I think is a real rage, but I think probably what I have to do is go back into the field and try to find out a little bit more about white women's fear. What I'm curious about is, whenever I hear something, I just wonder how much—this is all conjecture; it's probably very dangerous to talk about on tape—but I wonder how much white women feel empowered to talk about black men in particular, and there's no way you can really talk about this story without talking about black men. 

AA:  Do you think they feel empowered by talking about black men? 

ADS:  Or if they feel, maybe they—my guess is that maybe they think white men speak for them. What I'm learning is there's different ways that I would like to understand more what the protocol is in the white community. When the white man speaks, to what extent does he protect the white woman from speech, even? 

KLF:  Especially when you start hearing discussions of children as innocent or deviant, or those discussions of superhuman strength and incredible sexual prowess that emerge. Who is speaking? Is it white women at some point, white men at some point—where do those boundaries lie? 

AA:  And also, if you think about Marilyn Quayle and her speech at the Republican convention:  she talked about the family and how refreshing it is that not all young people in the '60s thought there was anything wrong with American society. That the '50s weren't so bad. I was just—where does she live? I mean, where was she? And there is that level of discussion among white women, that I don't think black women can take. I'm not saying she's representative of anyone but herself, but certainly it was very interesting to hear her perspective. She's benefited tremendously, in fact; women like her are the women who have benefited from the feminist movement. She's a lawyer—and she's a good one—and she had the opportunity to go to law school and— 

ADS:  Be smart. 

AA:  Right. And to make it. And unfortunately her perspective now is really very bizarre.